Online debatt: 9/11 en gigantisk bløff?

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Som de fleste har fått med seg så handler en av dagens artikler om 9/11 og teoriene om hvem som stod bak angrepet. Det er helt klart mange meninger ute og går, da er det perfekt å arrangere en "online debatt" hvor alle kan komme med sin mening og argumentere for og imot de forskjellige teoriene - i sanntid på IRC-kanalen til ITpro.

Vi skal prøve å skrive et lite referat i fra debatten og komme med en "konklusjon" (som blir offentligjort i denne tråden), ikke nødvendigvis på hvem som har rett, men hvilke områder partene er enige og ikke enige på. Om det ikke blir noe nyttig ut av det så skal det iallefall bli lærerikt og kanskje til og med morro. :)

Debatten starter klokken 20:15

(Møt opp klokken 20:00, så er du sikker på at du får med deg alt.)

Kanalen heter #itpro og finnes på EFnet-nettverket

(Dersom du ikke vil sette deg inn i en IRC-klient kan du bruke http://chat.itpro.no/ )

Velkommen innom! :)

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Morsomt, det skal jeg ikke gå glipp av. :P

EDIT:

For dere som bruker Opera, har den innebygget IRC-klient og du aktiverer den på dette viset:

130412.jpeg

for å starte å prate i #itpro (trykk helt ut i venstre side på opera for å få frem verktøylinjen som vist i bildet nedenfor):

130414.jpeg

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ferdig på jobb klokken 2000, så da må jeg kjappe meg hjem.

Dette må jeg få med meg iallefall :)

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For å kunne debattere og være åpen for hverandres synspunkter må deltakerene ha en viss basis kjennskap til de faktiske forhold som diskuteres. Er temmelig håpløst å ha en diskusjon ut fra subjektive preferanser og hva en måtte tro eller mene, På samme måte som å debattere hvorvidt holocost virkelig har hendt, eller om jorden er flat, så er det visse grunnleggende historiske og naturvitenskaplige fakta en faktisk må forholde seg til.

Enhver med et grunnfag på universitet har fått med seg ex-phil og vet at en påstand kun er sann så lenge den ikke kan tilbakebevises. Absolutt alle påstandene som kommer frem i lederartikkelen på itpro er basert på falske konspirasjonsteorier som er konsekvent tilbakebevist på absolutt alle punkter. Det finnes selvfølgelig visse nyanser, og det hersker debatt rundt visse årsakssammenhenger. Men i all hovedskap så er det en konsensus mellom fagmiljø, politikere og sammfunnsvitere og folk flest i USA. (med unntak av radikale grupperinger )

Vi skal prøve å skrive et lite referat i fra debatten og komme med en "konklusjon"

Vil gjør deg og andre i redaksjonen oppmerksom på vær varsom plakaten, spesiellt punkt 3; Journalistisk atferd og forholdet til kildene.

Vær kritisk i valg av kilder, og kontroller at opplysninger som gis er korrekte. Det er god presseskikk å tilstrebe bredde og relevans i valg av kilder.

http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A6r_Varsom-plakaten

http://www.debunking911.com/

A must read!

9-11 and the New Pearl Harbor

http://www.gnn.tv/articles/2577/9_11_and_the_

New_Pearl_Harbor_Part_I

Journal Of Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

http://www.jod911.com

911 Myths - Reading between the lines

http://www.911myths.com

Screw Loose Change Blog

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

Debunk 9/11 myths

http://www.debunk911myths.org/

Internet Detectives Group - Loose Change

http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-change

The 9/11 Debunker Guide

http://911debunker.livejournal.com/

Screw Loose Change - Not Freakin' Again edition

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-65...76&hl=en-CA

9/11, Steven Jones, and Me

http://ldspatriot.wordpress.com/tag/conspiracy-theories/

Your Friday Dose of Woo: And now for something completely different...

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/12/

your_friday_dose_of_woo_and_now_for_some.php

911 Cult Watch

http://www.911cultwatch.org.uk

What I Learned from 9-11 Conspiracy Theories.

http://www.sawyerhome.net/whatilearned.html

Pentagon & Boeing 757 Engine Investigation

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml

Pentagon & Boeing 757 Ground Effect

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0274.shtml

Counterpunch The Physics of 9/11

http://www.counterpunch.org/physic11282006.html

The 9/11 Faith Movement

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2702/

Attempting to make sense of senseless acts

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.h...439aacc&p=1

Did the U.S. government plan and execute the 9/11 attacks?

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/911truth.html

Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already

http://www.alternet.org/story/41601/

9/11 Conspiracy Fantasies

http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/41423/

All Plots Move Deathward

http://insidehighered.com/views/2006/09/06/mclemee

9/11 Conspiracy Theories Persist, Thrive

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2281052

Why The 9/11 Conspiracies Won't Go Away

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...1531304,00.html

Popular Mechanics - 9/11: Debunking The Myths

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Fahrenheit 2777

9/11 has generated the mother of all conspiracy theories

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID...E1583414B7F0000

The Ground Zero Grassy Knoll

http://www.nymetro.com/news/features/16464/

Facts about 9/11. Not Fantasy

http://www.geocities.com/factsnotfantasy/

The September 11 X-Files

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?bid=3&pid=66

The 9/11 Conspiracy: A Skeptic’s View

http://www.crisispapers.org/essays6p/skeptic.htm

Debunking the 9/11 Movement

http://www.infoshop.org/texts/debunking911.html

Interview with Prof. Jonathan Barnett, an expert in structural and fire protection engineering who was one of the WTC investigators

http://www.wpi.edu/News/Transformations/2002Spring/fall.html

Public Eye - Post 9/11 Conspiracism

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/Post911/demnowfaq.html

Public Eye- 9/11/01 - Repercussions General Conspiracist Views

http://www.publiceye.org/frontpage/911/conspiracist.html

Perry Logon's "Delusion Central" (A fun site.)

http://perrylogan.org/

Viewer Guide to Loose Change (Doc)

http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/911_loose_change_2_guide_

Og på http://www.debunking911.com/ vil du finne linker til følgende:

Important New Site ~ http://www.ae911truth.info addresses the misleading and deceitful conspiracy industries latest attempt at creating consumers for their products. From their blatant appeal to authority to misapplied science, ae911truth.info is a must for anyone seriously looking for truth.

New link ~ Frequently Asked Questions - "Why do you use the term "debunking" in your name? Doesn't that prove you already think you're right?"... "Why do you hide your identity?" "Who funds your site?"...The answer to those questions and much more are in the FAQ. Please read the FAQ before sending e-mail. Your questions about this site may already be answered.

New ~ WTC 7 explained in Structure Magazine. "Single Point of Failure: How the Loss of One Column May Have Led to the Collapse of WTC 7" points out that the failure of column 79 in the lower levels will create the very effect we see in videos

New ~ Quick Answers and links page. Quickly debunk the most commonly repeated conspiracy myths.

9/11 Conspiracy Theorists: "Don't ignore me, bro!" Evidence most people do not believe the towers were blown up.

Readers E-mails ~ Here are some thought provoking e-mails from our readers.

New Paper ~ Professor of Civil, Structural and Environmental Engineering at Cambridge University passes yet another peer reviewed paper by a RESPECTED engineering Journal saying the towers collapsed the way they did without the need of explosives.

Update ~ The real conspiracy, the administrations rush to war and the evidence for an investigation people should be fighting for.

Link ~ The Italian debunker does it again! Uninterruptible power supply on the 81st floor may be yet another explanation for the molten flow coming from the 81st floor window.

New Page ~ In Defense of Rosie. Why Rosie O'Donnell shouldn't be fired from 'The View' but should reexamine the WTC 7 collapse.

New Video ~ Frustrated fireman agonizes over not being able to go into "leaning" Building 7 and save it from certain doom.

Update ~ An Italian debunker over seas put an iron slab to the test. Shoots down Steven Jones alleged thermite photo. Badda Bing!

Uncomfortable Questions ~ Was the Death Star Attack an Inside Job?

New Search Engine ~ Debunking 9/11's "9/11 POWER Debunker" Over 200 9/11 related web sites and thousands of pages of facts, papers and commentary!

New Video ~ Did the BBC know the WTC 7 was going to be blown up or is this conspiracy story just petty revenge?

New Video ~ Shows us what he saw from the south side of Building 7!

Updated ~ The NIST and "Pancaking". More deception from conspiracy theorists...

Must Read! ~ 9-11 and the New Pearl Harbor (Part I) (Part II)

http://www.gnn.tv/articles/2577/9_11_and_t...l_Harbor_Part_I

Reply to conspiracy theorist hit piece ~ Below and on the World Trade Center 7 page I respond to a conspiracy theorist's hit piece which mocks my grammar and distorts the firefighters quotes.

Debunking 9/11 exclusive! ~ Portion of World Trade Center 7 South Side Hole

Updated ~ Prof. Steven E Jones The controversial professor of BYU's Cold Fusion physics department and his scholars for truth. Jones is placed on leave with pay and my view on the topic.

Added ~ Examination of evidence concerning asbestos at the towers and occupancy at the time of the attack.

Debunking 911 Links - 9/11 Conspiracy debunking sites... Peer reviewed papers and articles on how the towers collapsed..

Molten Steel Explained - Conspiracy sites like to bring up molten steel found 6 weeks after the buildings fell to suggest a bomb must have created the effect. There is another explanation which is more plausible.

"Iron Burns!!! Mark R Ferran's E-mails to the scholars explaining to them how iron can burn/oxidize in low temperature fires.

The "Squib" Squabble - An examination of the evidence which squelches the "Squibs" issue.

Rethinking Thermite - The reality of thermite and an examination of the evidence

The Free Fall Fallacy - Photographic evidence the towers did not fall at free fall speed.

World Trade Center 7 - Firefighter interviews proving Silverstein meant "pull" the ongoing [rescue operations] out of building 7's immediate area. Proof also that Building 7 was a lot worse than conspiracy theorists lead you to believe.

Columns and Trusses - Photographic evidence the trusses sagged due to fire and pulled the columns in causing the catastrophic collapse.

Peer Reviewed Paper - A look at the only paper which passed peer review on what caused the WTC collapse and the people behind it.

The Fire - The fireman's quote saying all that was needed was two fire hoses to put out the fires is taken out of context by conspiracy theorists.

The Firefighter Quotes - Evidence that conspiracy theorists are lying and taking firefighter quotes out of context.

Civil Engineers' Quotes Structural and Civil Engineers who have spoken out against Controlled Demolition conspiracy theory.

Osama Bin Laden - "A few Arabs in the desert could not have pulled this off..." Why Osama is perfect for this attack.

The Zogby Poll - Conspiracy sites point to a Zogby poll which they suggest proves that the American people think the government blew up the towers. Why that's not the case.

Real Conspiracy - What a real conspiracy looks like. Ironically, this conspiracy goes unnoticed by the conspiracy theorists.

First time in history - Conspiracy sites bring up the fact that the towers were the first steel high raises to fall in history. The fact is the towers had a lot of firsts that day.

The Meeting - The absurd meeting which must have occurred between government accomplices if conspiracy theorists are right.

Sounds of Explosions - A look at a possible explanation for what some people saw and heard.

Massive Conspiracy - All the people who would have to be involved in order to pull this massive conspiracy off...

Debunking 911 Links - 9/11 Conspiracy debunking sites... Peer reviewed papers and articles on how the towers collapsed..

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For å kunne debattere og være åpen for hverandres synspunkter må deltakerene ha en viss basis kjennskap til de faktiske forhold som diskuteres. Er temmelig håpløst å ha en diskusjon ut fra subjektive preferanser og hva en måtte tro eller mene, På samme måte som å debattere hvorvidt holocost virkelig har hendt, eller om jorden er flat, så er det visse grunnleggende historiske og naturvitenskaplige fakta en faktisk må forholde seg til.

Begge parter påstår at de har "fakta/bevis". Det er nettopp dette vi skal diskutere. Man må ikke være rakettforsker for å kunne lese "fakta" på nettet. Men det er da denne sorteringen av kildene som er viktig, hva vi skal tro på eller ikke. Alle står fritt til å ta frem fakta for og imot påstandene.

Vil gjør deg og andre i redaksjonen oppmerksom på vær varsom plakaten, spesiellt punkt 3; Journalistisk atferd og forholdet til kildene.

http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A6r_Varsom-plakaten

Debatten skal handle om temaet "9/11 en gigantisk bløff?", ikke om artikkelen eller andre ting som kan forbindes med journalistikk.

For ordens skyld tar vi for oss påstandene i artikkelen på forsiden, slik at vi har en slags "agenda". Vi kan ikke ta opp alle fakta på en gang, da kommer vi til å bli sittende der i hele dag.

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Med dine linker Exchange, så viser du jo klart hvor du står, hadde vært fint om noen kunne levert noen linker fra "den andre leiren".

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Med dine linker Exchange, så viser du jo klart hvor du står, hadde vært fint om noen kunne levert noen linker fra "den andre leiren".

Nå har jo da nettopp it.pro's egen sjefsredaktør kommet med nok linker til "den andre leiren". så dette er vel heller et forsøk på å skape en hvis nyanse her.

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Litt fra debatten:

Jeg begynte debatten med et spørsmål som aldri fikk noe svar:

20:16 <@Atm0z> Ja, la oss begynne: Hvem tror på påstandene i artikkelen?

Heller ikke Kanoner fikk svar:

20:25 <+Kanoner> Er det ingen her inne som med hånden på hjertet tror at det

ikke var et terroranslag, men en nøye planlagt aksjon fra

regjeringen/MIB i USA?

Så diskusjonen gikk etterhvert over til økonomien til USA, om man har lov å smelte penger, forskjellen på USA og Norge, enda mer økonomi og jobb. Diskusjonen var vel egentlig over før den begynte. Vi legger skylden på at det manglet folk fra "den andre parten", altså folk som kunne argumentere for at 9/11 var en bløff.

Exchange har kommet med noen linker som dere som ikke møtte opp på debatten kan bryne dere på. :P

Så da blir konklusjonen:

21:09 <@Atm0z> Ok, hjelp meg med å skrive en konklusjon ut av dagens "debatt"

21:10 <+bliblok> Atm0z: Generell enighet i den offisielle forklaringen, og

dertil hørende forkasting av konspirasjonsteoriene.

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Fantastisk!

Hva med en ny debatt i morgen hvor vi reklamerer på forsiden, samt at anonyme kan være med?

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Fantastisk!

Hva med en ny debatt i morgen hvor vi reklamerer på forsiden, samt at anonyme kan være med?

Det er uaktuelt for min del.

internetdickwad.png

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Hehe, joda. Men sånn som jeg ser det så er det nok av ivrige anonyme kommentarer på denne artikkelen, så jeg tror det kan bli en riktig morsom debatt tilslutt :P

Men det avhenger av at folk gidder å komme til IRC kanalen...

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Glimrende link

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Ross Kemp In Afghanistan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VodLJHwD9D4

Ross Kemp In Afghanistan is a five-episode documentary, which first episode was broadcast on 21 January 2008 on Sky One. The documentary entails Kemp following the 1st Battalion of the British Army's Royal Anglian Regiment during their deployment to Afghanistan's Helmand Province from March to August 2007.

(du finner den som torrent)

The battalion suffered 9 casualties during its tour, 5 hostile and 4 accident :

Pte. Robert Foster

Pte. Chris Gray

Pte. Aaron McClure

Pte. Tony Rawson

Pte. John Thrumble

L/Cpl. Alex Hawkins

L/Cpl. George Russell Davey

Cpl. Darren Bonner

Cpt. David Hicks

The series was dedicated to the 9 members of the Royal Anglian Regiment who lost their lives during that deployment and to all members of the Royal Anglian Regiment currently serving their country

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Kemp_In_Afghanistan

Endret av exchange
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Burde kanskje nevne at jeg stiller meg i samme "leir" som Exchange når det gjelder 9/11. Og hadde jeg ikke fyrt avgårde før jeg så hva linkene egentlig inneholdt, så hadde jeg sett det du nevner Gautepews.

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http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Jun/28-581634.html

Did a Plane Hit the Pentagon?

French Conspiracy Theorist Claims It Did Not

In 2002, French conspiracy theorist Thierry Meyssan wrote a book suggesting that a cruise missile instead of a plane hit the Pentagon on September 11, and the planes that hit the World Trade Center towers had not been hijacked but were piloted by remote control. Mr. Meyssan believes both attacks were masterminded not by al Qaeda, but "from inside the American state apparatus." (9/11: The Big Lie, p. 139.)

Mr. Meyssan's claims suffer from numerous obvious flaws.

With regard to the Pentagon attacks, Mr. Meyssan ignores or dismisses the facts that:

  • many eyewitnesses saw a plane crash into the Pentagon
  • the passenger and crew remains from American Airlines flight 77 were recovered at the Pentagon crash site
  • eyewitness reports and photographs show plane debris at the Pentagon crash site
  • passengers on American Airlines flight 77 made phone calls, reporting their aircraft had been hijacked
  • senior Al Qaeda leaders have admitted they conducted the September 11 attacks.
    • Boeing commercial aircraft can not be remotely controlled
    • passengers on both flights that attacked the World Trade Center made phone calls, reporting that their aircraft had been hijacked
    • senior Al Qaeda leaders have admitted they conducted the September 11 attacks.
      Mr. Meyssan's book, L'Effroyable Imposture [The Horrifying Fraud] is available in 19 languages -- French, English, Spanish, German, Russian, Italian, Greek, Turkish, Persian, Arabic, Korean, Greek, Portugese, Romanian, Czech, Estonian, Croatian, Albanian, Serbian -- and is being translated into four more -- Chinese, Slovenian, Japanese, and Dutch. The book was published in English as 9/11: The Big Lie.

      The book was severely criticized in the French press as soon as it appeared. The French newspaper Liberation called the book "The Frightening Confidence Trick ... a tissue of wild and irresponsible allegations, entirely without foundation." Nevertheless, the book was an instant bestseller in France, selling more than 200,000 copies.

      The Pentagon Attack

      Numerous Eyewitness Accounts

      Mr. Meyssan suggests that a cruise missile with a depleted uranium warhead, not a plane, struck the Pentagon on September 11. But he never traveled to the United States to conduct research or interviewed any of the many eyewitnesses to the attack on the Pentagon. He ignores or dismisses the many eyewitness accounts -- some of which specifically identified the plane as having American Airlines markings, as a Boeing 757, and as a plane with passengers onboard, visible through windows. On May 16, 2006, the Pentagon released videotape footage showing the plane hitting the Pentagon. Excerpts from some of the eyewitness accounts are included at the end of this document



      Passenger and Crew Remains Recovered at Pentagon Crash Site

      In addition to the numerous eyewitness accounts, the remains of the passengers and crew onboard American Airlines flight 77 were recovered from the Pentagon crash site. A team of more than 100 forensic specialists and others identified 184 of the 189 people who died in the Pentagon attack (125 from the Pentagon and 64 onboard American Airlines flight 77). All but one of the passengers onboard American Airlines flight 77 was positively identified as a match with DNA samples provided by the families of the crash victims. These positive forensic identifications provide irrefutable proof that American Airlines flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon on September 11. In addition, rescue and recovery personnel at the Pentagon reported seeing the bodies of airline passengers. The September 14, 2001 edition of USA Today reported, "When [Army Sergeant Mark] Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped in their seats."

      Plane Debris Found at Pentagon Crash Site

      People who went to the Pentagon crash site reported seeing parts of an airplane, including the nose cone, landing gear, an airplane tire, the fuselage, an intact cockpit seat, and the tail number of the airplane, as reported in an e-mail to a conspiracy theory website that debunks the conspiracy theory claims. The e-mail also contains photographs of airplane landing gear, tires, and fuselage fragments, which were taken at the Pentagon crash site. Moreover, the black boxes for American Airlines flight 77 -- the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder -- were found at the Pentagon crash site. For more photographs of debris from the airliner, including the crumpled "C" from "American Airlines," see portions 4:57 to 6:00 of the
      video. Also, see a plane engine part from flight 77 introduced into evidence at the trial of Zaccarias Moussaoui.

      Passengers Report Hijackings

      Mr. Meyssan's book also ignores the fact that several passengers from American Airlines flight 77 made phone calls reporting that their plane had been hijacked.

      At 9:12 am, approximately 10 minutes after the American Airlines flight 77 had been hijacked, passenger Renee May called her mother, Nancy May, to report that the plane had been hijacked and that the passengers had been herded to the back of the plane.

      Minutes later, passenger Barbara Olson called her husband Ted Olson, the solicitor general of the United States, also reporting that the flight had been hijacked, and that the hijackers had knives and box cutters.

      In addition, a damaged passport bearing the last name of one of the hijackers, Nawaf al Hazmi, was found at the crash scene.

      Al Qaeda Admits it Conducted September 11 Attacks

      Finally, high-ranking al Qaeda members involved in the September 11 attacks, including Osama bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and Ramzi bin al Shibh, have openly acknowledged that they planned and executed the attacks. As Khalid Sheikh Mohammed told Al Jazeera reporter Yosri Fouda in April 2002, with reference to the September 11 attacks, "I am the head of the al Qaeda military committee and Ramzi is the coordinator of the Holy Tuesday operation. And, yes, we did it." (Yosri Fouda and Nick Fielding, Masterminds of Terror, p. 38.)

      Mr. Meyssan provides no explanation for what he believes happened to American Airlines flight 77. If the plane did not crash into the Pentagon, as he claims, where did the plane and all its passengers go? He has no explanation for this question.



      Thus, there are:
    • numerous eyewitness accounts of an American Airlines passenger plane crashing into the Pentagon
    • phone calls from passengers on American Airlines flight 77 reporting that it had been hijacked
    • eyewitness accounts of airplane parts and the bodies of airline passengers still strapped in their seats found at the Pentagon crash site, as well as photographs of airplane parts
    • the remains of bodies recovered at the Pentagon crash site positively identified as matching those of the passengers and crew on American Airlines flight 77
    • acknowledgements by high-ranking al Qaeda members that they carried out the September 11 attacks.

    In light of these facts, there is no doubt that American Airlines flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon on September 11.

    The World Trade Center Attacks

    Mr. Meyssan also suggests that the two Boeing aircraft that crashed into the World Trade Center towers had not been hijacked, but were remotely controlled. He writes:

    It was not necessary in fact to have any hijackers on board at all, as there was no taking of hostages: by hacking into the planes' computers before takeoff, it would have been possible to take over the aircraft in flight, thanks to the Global Hawk technology perfected by the Department of Defense. The Boeing would have been under remote control, like a drone -- a plane without a pilot. (9/11: The Big Lie, p. 34.)

    Remotely Controlled Flight Not Possible

    A Boeing Company official stated that Boeing has designed its commercial airplanes so that it is impossible to control them remotely. Elizabeth Verdiev, a spokesperson for Boeing, stated on June 16, 2005:

    No Boeing commercial jet transport can be controlled from outside the airplane. No Boeing commercial jet transport can be "commanded" or have its flight controlled other than from within the flight deck by the pilots. Pilots can program the airplane to take off, fly to a destination and land automatically, but Boeing design philosophy keeps pilots in control and in the decision-making loop at all times.

    Meyssan's claims about the World Trade Center attacks also ignores acknowledgements by high-ranking al Qaeda members that they carried out the September 11 attacks, and the fact that several passengers and crew from the two planes that crashed into the World Trade Center towers made phone calls describing how their flights had been hijacked.

    Passengers Report Hijackings

    American Airlines flight 11 crashed into the World Trade Center's north tower at 8:46 am. It had been hijacked at approximately 8:14 am. Flight attendants Betty Ong and Madeline "Amy" Sweeney made phone calls describing the hijacking. Betty Ong's call lasted about 25 minutes, the first four minutes of which were recorded (see footnote 29 of The 9-11 Commission Report). To listen to the four recorded minutes of Ms. Ong's call, hit the "Ong" file or the phone icon in the lower left corner of the American Airlines flight 11 page.

    The 9-11 Commission Report stated:

    At 8:19, Ong reported: "The cockpit is not answering, somebody's stabbed in business class -- and I think there's Mace -- that we can't breathe -- I don't know, I think we're getting hijacked." She then told of the stabbings of the two flight attendants.

    ... At 8:26, Ong reported that the plane was "flying erratically." A minute later, Flight 11 turned south. ...

    Sweeney calmly reported on her line that the plane had been hijacked; a man in first class had his throast slashed; two flight attendants had been stabbed -- one was seriously hurt and was on oxygen while the other's wounds seemed minor ....

    United Airlines flight 175 crashed into the World Trade Center's south tower at 9:03 am. It had been hijacked between 8:42 and 8:46 am. Passengers Peter Hanson, Brian David Sweeney, and an unidentified flight attendant made phone calls reporting that United Airlines flight 175 had been hijacked and recounting events onboard the plane.

    The 9-11 Commission Report stated:

    At 8:52, in Easton, Connecticut, a man named Lee Hanson received a phone call from his son Peter, a passenger on United 175. His son told him, "I think they've taken over the cockpit -- An attendant has been stabbed -- and someone else up front may have been killed." ...

    Also at 8:52, a male flight attendant called a United office in San Francisco .... The flight attendant reported that the flight had been hijacked, both pilots had been killed, a flight attendant had been stabbed, and the hijackers were probably flying the plane.

    ... At 8:59, Flight 175 passenger Brian David Sweeney ... called his mother, Louise Sweeney, told her the flight had been hijacked, and added that the passengers were thinking about storming the cockpit to take control of the plane away from the hijackers.

    At 9:00, Lee Hanson received a second call from his son Peter:

    "It's getting bad, Dad -- A stewardess was stabbed -- They seem to have knives and Mace -- They said they have a bomb -- ... The plane is making jerky movements -- I don't think the pilot is flying the plane -- I think we are going down -- Don't worry, Dad -- If it happens, it'll be very fast -- My God, my God."

    The call ended abruptly. Lee Hanson heard a woman scream just before it cut off. He turned on a television, and in her home so did Louise Sweeney. Both of them saw the second aircraft hit the World Trade Center.

    Thus, passengers and crew members from both flights reported that they had been hijacked, that passengers and crew members had been killed or wounded, and that the planes were flying in an erratic or jerky fashion, as would be the case if they were being flown by first-time pilots, as both hijacker pilots were. There was no mention or indication of a mysterious "remote control" takeover of the planes.

    In addition, hijacker pilot Mohammed Atta's statement that planes had been hijacked -- "We have some planes" -- was recorded. Listen to it by hitting the "Atta" file or the phone icon in the lower left corner of the American Airlines flight 11 page.

    In conclusion, Mr. Meyssan's book ignores obvious facts, makes sweeping, totally unfounded allegations, and employs spurious logic to try to explain away facts that he apparently finds inconvenient. As the French newspaper Liberation said, the book is "a tissue of wild and irresponsible allegations, entirely without foundation."

    Eyewitness Accounts of Pentagon Attack

    Following are some of the numerous eyewitness accounts of the Pentagon crash:

    [*]Richard Benedetto: "It was an American Airlines airplane, I could see it very clearly."

    [*]Omar Campo, a Salvadorean" "It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane. I was cutting grass and it came in screaming over my head."

    [*]Joseph Candelario: "I noticed a large aircraft flying low towards the White House. This aircraft then made a sharp turn and flew towards the Pentagon and seconds later crashed into it."

    [*]James Cissell: "I saw this plane coming in and it was low - and getting lower. ... Then I saw the faces of some of the passengers on board."

    [*]Dennis Clem: "There was a commercial airliner that said American Airliners over the side of it flying at just above treetop height at full speed headed for the Pentagon."

    [*]Michael Dobbs: "It was an American airlines airliner. I was looking out the window and saw it come right over the Navy annex at a slow angle."

    [*]Penny Elgas: "... the plane was directly over the cars in front of my car .... I remember recognizing it as an American Airlines plane -- I could see the windows and the color stripes."

    [*]Cheryl Hammond: "We saw the big American Airlines plane and started running."

    [*]Joe Harrington: "... one of my guys pointed to an American Airlines airplane 20 feet high over Washington Blvd."

    [*]Albert Hemphill: "The aircraft, look[ed] to be either a 757 or Airbus."

    [*]Terrance Kean: "I saw this very, very large passenger jet. It just plowed right into the side of the Pentagon."

    [*]William Lagasse: "It was close enough that I could see the windows and the blinds had been pulled down. I read American Airlines on it. ... I saw the aircraft above my head about 80 feet above the ground."

    [*]Robert Leonard: "I ... saw a large commercial aircraft aiming for the Pentagon."

    [*]Lincoln Liebner: "I saw this large American Airlines passenger jet coming in fast and low."

    [*]Elaine McCusker: "I saw a very low-flying American Airlines plane that seemed to be accelerating."

    [*]Mitch Mitchell: "I ... saw, coming straight down the road at us, a huge jet plane clearly with American Airlines written on it .... It crossed about 100 feet in front of us and at about 20 feet altitude and we watched it go in. It struck the Pentagon."

    [*]Terry Morin: "The plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage. I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines."

    [*]Christopher Munsey: "I couldn't believe what I was now seeing to my right: a silver, twin-engine American Airlines jetliner gliding almost noiselessly over the Navy Annex, fast, low and straight toward the Pentagon ...."

    [*]Vin Narayanan: "I looked up to my left and saw an American Airlines jet flying right at me. The jet roared over my head, clearing my car by about 25 feet."

    [*]John O'Keefe: "I don't know whether I saw or heard it first -- this silver plane; I immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet ...."

    [*]Steve Riskus: "I was close enough (about 100 feet or so) that I could see the 'American Airlines' logo on the tail as it headed towards the building .... I clearly saw the 'AA' logo with the eagle in the middle."

    [*]James Ryan: "I see an American Airlines plane, silver plane, I could see AA on the tail. ... The plane was low enough that I could see the windows of the plane. I could see every detail of the plane. In my head I have ingrained forever this image of every detail of that plane. It was a silver plane, American Airlines plane, and I recognized it immediately as a passenger plane."

    [*]Joel Sucherman: "... looking straight ahead there was a jet, what looked to be an American Airlines jet, probably a 757, and it came screaming across the highway ... [and] hit the west side of the Pentagon."

    [*]Donald "Tim" Timmerman, a pilot: "I live on the 16th floor, overlooking the Pentagon ... and so I have quite a panorama. ... It was a Boeing 757, American Airlines, no question."

    Mike Walter: "I saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming. ... It went right there and slammed right into the Pentagon. I saw the big 'AA' on the side."

    [*]Ian Wyatt: "I duck, I look up, it looks like a silver American Airlines, twin-engine plane and then boom."

    Finally, The 9/11 Commission Report states that on September 11, air traffic controllers at Washington's Reagan National Airport instructed a C-130H cargo plane that had just taken off from the airport to try to follow the plane that had been spotted on radar as heading toward Washington. According to the report, "The C-130H pilot spotted it, identified it as a Boeing 757, attempted to follow its path, and at 9:39, seconds after impact, reported to the control tower: 'looks like that aircraft crashed into the Pentagon, sir.'"

    In sum, hundreds of people on nearby roads or in nearby buildings saw a large passenger plane hit the Pentagon and, as the above eyewitness testimonies demonstrate, numerous people specifically identified it as an American Airlines plane.

    http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005.../28-581634.html

    </H3>

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